INTERVIEW: Albertina Thabisani Ncube

Albertina Thabisani Ncube is a Zimbabwe-born, WA based creative that specialises in photography and videography. As a woman of colour, Albertina’s work focuses and uplifts people of melanin that was influenced by the lack of representation in Australia. In the lead up to her project ABANTU Exhibition presented by Drug Aware on Saturday 1 August, we chatted to Albertina about Black representation and the recent Black Lives Matter movement, the platform she’s creating towards cross-cultural exchange in ABANTU, suffering from an identity crisis and the importance of support and opportunity for young creatives of colour.

Let’s start with who you are, what you do and why you’re doing it.

I’m Albertina Thabisani Ncube, I’m from Zimbabwe but I’m based here in Perth. Besides from being a videographer and photographer I call myself a creative because being a creative doesn’t necessarily put you in a category, it allows you to be more. Whether you associate yourself with creative production or you manage creatives, you can still call yourself a creative.

The reason why I’m doing everything that I’m doing is because at the end of the day, I want to go back to Africa and really build the creative industry in my home country, Zimbabwe. I came to a point of realisation that people don’t talk about the creative industry in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is commonly known for its economic situation and their bad president who ruled for over 25 years but didn’t build the country, that’s the kind of reputation that we have. I want to reverse that understanding of Zimbabwe, and I thought because I’m from there, let me be that person to bring out the creative industry.

What is the art community like in Zimbabwe?

It’s insane, it’s very prominent and it’s there. I did a documentary in 2018 called Abantu People of Art, and I interviewed creatives based in Zimbabwe. At that time, I didn’t know anyone, but I had the idea and when I got to Zimbabwe, I went on Instagram, and was like ‘Hey, I'm looking for creatives.’ and I just put the location, and one guy hit me up, and I did an interview with him, and while we were doing the interview, he introduced me to someone else, and it was just like that. I met all these creatives through social media and the project went from there. 

I feel like I haven’t caught onto it fully yet, I know quite a lot of people in the industry, but I still know there’s a lot more to know. The industry in Zimbabwe is really alive, and I think living in Australia, we don’t really hear much about it. Whenever I go back, I’m just amazed. I always end up meeting new people whenever I go back and that’s what I love about going back so often.

Do you have a Zimbabwean creative community here in Perth? Or is it mainly based in Zimbabwe?

No, I actually don’t, but I guess with my goal with going back to Zimbabwe and building out the creative industry, what I want to do in Australia and with the event that I’m hosting is that I’m trying to bridge the gap between the two countries. The long-term goal is to have creatives in Australia go to Zimbabwe and vice versa. So in saying that, now what I have to do is build a creative community here. I don’t want it to just be Zimbabwean because I want to bridge the gap between Australia and Zimbabwe. I’m open to having all sorts of people involved, Zimbabweans, Indigenous people, Africans, everyone.

Figuero Jones, Perth rapper and music producer. Photo credit: Albertina Thabisani Ncube.

Tell us more about ABANTU Exhibition, it’s a one night only event on Saturday 1 August that showcases Zimbabwean photographers and there’s going to be live music and food. Tell us more about it. I assume your work is also going to be featured in it?

No actually! I realised the reason why I don’t want to include myself is because I want to focus on the people I’m showcasing. I’m just creating the platform to allow these people to showcase their work. Here in Perth, people follow me on Instagram, they’ve seen my work, they know my style, so I didn’t feel the need to add my work into the event. I’m still involved in the event as I’m co-mcing it and I’m also going to have a quick Q&A with the main MC, which is one way of being involved without displaying my images, that alone is enough. I just wanted to put out a platform for other people. 

There’s this common perception that people have of Africa and how it’s old fashioned, they think of the rural area and the villages. This event is literally putting a platform out for creatives in Zimbabwe, not just to feature their work but also to educate people here in Australia that this is the sort of work that’s coming out from Zimbabwe. 

You’ve said you want to tell stories through your work, and as a woman of colour your work focuses on people of melanin which was influenced by the lack of representation in Australia. Would you be able to elaborate on that point?

I guess that would be my overall story in my work, my creative work is presenting people of colour and specifically Black people in a genuine way. Being a Black person, I’ve realised that Black people have become a trend recently. I feel like we’re trending, we’re a style you know? It's cool to have us. It sounds crazy, but that’s what it feels like, like we’re only being represented because we’re “cool”. Something I realised during the recent Black Lives Matter movement and the recent protests was that there were a lot of brands who were posting and sharing things about the movement. Looking at the brand though, it just didn't add up because you could tell that they had nothing to do with Black people and they didn’t genuinely support Black people. They were only getting involved because Black people are seen as trendy and as a style. 

How were you feeling during the recent Black Lives Matter movement and the protests?

It's a bit hard for me right now, I’ve struggled to support the movement fully because I feel like it’s a trend. There have been protests before, they went up and then down, and then spiked up again, and then died out again. I feel like right now it’s a hype and once it settles down, people are just going to move on and that really doesn’t settle with me. 

I've struggled as an individual to get involved in it fully and being a Black person, it feels like I’m not doing my job as a Black person in supporting the movement but then again, I have my reasons, I just feel like it’s a trend. It's hard and I made a post about it on social media and I was surprised that other people also felt the same way. I've been doing a lot of observing and reading, and if I am going to post something I’ll only do it if it resonates with me, not just because my friend re-shared it, I have to understand why I'm sharing these things and make sense of it.

I attended the first protest and I felt out of place, a lot of people were chanting Black Lives Matter and even my friend was like ‘Albie, why don’t you say something?’. I was observing and there were people there just for the sake of social media, it wasn’t because they went because they fully supported the movement.

Black Lives Matter originated from the United States by Black African Americans, and the Black lives here refer to the Indigenous Peoples, and me being African Black in Australia, I felt a bit disconnected. The protests here in Perth were focused on Indigenous People, and again, I’m not putting that down because the focus was needed, it was just that at that moment I really struggled to place myself.

I took photos of the protest that you guys used for social media, and I asked myself, am I being genuine with these photos or am I just taking them because I'm taking photos. It’s crazy, and I don’t really tell many people that but that’s just how I felt. 

“WE ARE WATER SERIES”. Photo credit: Albertina Thabisani Ncube.

What do you think of the current Black representation in the media, art and within the arts community in WA? Where does this lack of representation come from?

I feel like we’re slowing growing and slowing getting around. I guess in WA we’re a bit slow compared to over east when it comes to diverse representation, but then again, I feel like a lot of young Black people or young people of colour in general can be very hesitant in stepping forward. 

When I did my documentary screening, some people came up to me afterwards and was like ‘Oh you’ve inspired me to really start doing this’. As in they have an idea, but they’re still sitting on it and questioning whether or not they should do it. It’s great to plan what you’re going to do, but if you’re going to sit down on it for too long, you’re probably going to sit down on it forever. I feel like a lot of young people are in that position, a bit hesitant to really dive into the creative platform they want to be in. 

This hesitance that young people experience might also be due to how working in the creative industry is not seen as something serious, especially for young creatives of colour from ethnic backgrounds. There is a fear of being judged by parents and family, and these sorts of situations are some reasons why people fear diving in. I've had a lot of friends who have moved out of home because of that and it’s unfortunate that they don’t receive that sort of support from their parents and family. 

What about you? Did you experience these things?

It was a bit different for me because my parents got me my first camera. They were still a bit iffy about it, they were like ‘Are you sure about that?’. I kept doing it and then I guess they started to slowly take me seriously. Later on, that camera got stolen but my parents got me a new one. It's confusing, my parents invested in this thing and the fact that they were also willing to invest in it but at the same time were being hesitant. They were also saying ‘I don’t know if it’s secure or safe.’, they don’t say it like that exactly, but they make comments. It's not really a discussion, it’s just small typical comments, so it’s confusing, like do you support me or not? I'm very fortunate to have that sort of experience because a lot of people especially creatives of colour don’t have that. 

2 girls having a picnic | Secret Garden. Photo credit: Albertina Thabisani Ncube.

Do you think many young people don’t achieve their full potential or aren’t able to discover new things due to the lack of support and opportunity? 

Yes, a lot! Yesterday, I got all my images printed for ABANTU and I was talking to the owner of Perth Pro Lab, and we were talking and I was thinking, what are the chances that these creatives get that sort of platform to have their images shown in another country. Maybe an opportunity to display them in other countries in Africa like Kenya or South Africa is more likely but to have them displayed in Australia, the chances are very, very low. 

With the documentary I did a few years ago, a topic that the creatives brought up was the lack of support, not just within the community here, but within their own homes and family. This is where where creatives in Australia and creatives in Africa relate, we both have that ground where we lack support from our families. At the end of the day, when I get to that stage of doing that exchange program, we’re going to have that common ground of not just relating by being a creative but relating through our background of being a creative. We have something in common. Though the support is growing slowly, very, very slowly, it’s not where we want it to be yet.

Going back to support not just from the community but also from family, how important is family support and family values to Zimbabweans? Are these aspects important?

I think they are. I feel like family values go along with respect and the whole term of respecting your elders. Not even just respecting the people you’re related to, but anyone that’s older than you, you have to respect them. It’s like, if an older person tells you not to do this, you don’t do it. A lot of that respect plays a part in why we are unable to do certain things. The majority of us don’t say ‘Oh we’re moving out then, I got this, I want to do this and I will by myself,’ because by the end of the day there’s that respect factor which plays a big part. We've been taught from a young age, from day one to respect your elders.

Another thing that holds us back is fear, as well as shame to the family name. People talk right? And it’s very unfortunate, so imagine being a creative and people within your community find out that you no longer associate with your family because you decided to do your own thing, and now your family has to face scrutiny from that community, and then you’re portrayed as a daughter being out of control, rebellious and wasn’t raised up properly.

I feel like that’s another factor as well, the fear of bring down the family name. I feel like maybe that might be stronger in Zimbabwe because Zimbabwe is a country where there are small cities where everyone knows everyone in each city. So if people find out, people are going to know.

I've also realised a lot of young people of colour don’t know who they are. There’s a lot of identity crises and trying to fit into a group that they don’t necessarily belong in or a group that’s not really them. I understand mixing groups and having different types of people, but some of them get carried away to the point where they completely don’t know who they are.

Shoot for Kay Kay Accessories, African inspired unique jewellery. Photo credit: Albertina Thabisani Ncube.

Do you think having an identity crisis applies to people of colour who have migrated to Australia from overseas, or do you think that also applies to people in their home countries?

I feel like it’s possible for a Zimbabwean living in Zimbabwe to also suffer from an identity crisis. I think it’s possible, but I think it’s more so with those who have migrated to Australia from overseas. Going back to what we were saying earlier about culturally growing up, creatives who grow up with expectations of becoming a doctor or an engineer but deep down wanting to be a creative, and being raised up with that mentality of you conforming to expectations but internally wanting to be something else, that on its own can be a crisis. 

There are people who have moved here and can’t go back because of things like war, but looking at Zimbabwe, Zimbabwe has never gotten to a place where we’ve ever had war, it hasn’t reached that sort of extent, so people can go back for a holiday, but there’s a lot of young people from Zimbabwe who haven’t. I’ve been fortunate enough to go back every year, so I’ve always had that ability to go back and know where I’m from. Also, at home with my parents growing up, we’ve been raised to speak our language. In Zimbabwe there’s two main languages Shona and Ndebele, I’m Ndebele, but I was able to learn Shona as well. 

There are a lot of people my age that left Zimbabwe when they were 12 or so, some of them don’t know their language once they’ve moved, whereas for me, I left when I was 4 but I know both the languages. So again, family plays a part in that identity crisis. You don’t have to go back to that country to know your language, it’s as simple as being at home and your parents teaching you. But then again, some parents aren’t able to do that for their children, and that’s where the identity crisis comes in. With everything I’m doing and with ABANTU Exhibition, I want it to be a ground where young Zimbabweans in Australia can see what Zimbabwe is and what Zimbabwe has, whether you’re a creative or not. I'm bringing that platform to show everyone what Zimbabwe is, it’s not what your parents told you, or stereotypes about corruption. That's another reason why I want to push this sort of event and project, which is to help identity crisis throughout the younger generation.

ABANTU Exhibition is a one day art exhibition showcasing photographers based in Zimbabwe. An opportunity to put the creative industry in Zimbabwe on the map. Supported with live music performances from your favourite local artists! Connecting Zimbabwe and Australia, creatively. ABANTU is happening Saturday 1 August 6PM at Fridays Studio, get your tickets here. To keep updated on Albertina’s work, check out her website, Facebook and Instagram.