Marcus Wong and David Chidgzey collaborated on ECHO: Stories from East Africa happening on Saturday 30 November, an exhibition that encompasses the trials and triumphs of Ugandan and Ethiopian communities through documentaries, photography, live music, speeches and stories. Part 1 of their interview with Yoshika covers the conception of the ECHO project, the experience of volunteering in a completely foreign space and the question of whether who’s happier – someone who faces loneliness or a community who faces problems relating to basic needs.

Let’s start with some self-introductions.

M: I’m Marcus, I’m 21. I studied Screen Arts, Creative Advertising and Graphic Design at Curtin. Graduated in 2018, I now do media consultancy for NGOs. I also volunteer with small grassroot charities in photography, filmmaking and graphic design to help raise funds and increase awareness for their cause. By bringing these stories back here and talking to students, churches and different organisations and community groups, I want to show people in Australia what it’s like in other parts of the world. And I do that through art – using visuals to connect with a shared humanity.

D: I’m David, I’m currently working part-time as a music lecturer at a college in Mount Pleasant. I’m focusing on creating my own music and I’m a band called Chidgzey. Also helping out with a few projects around the place. That’s pretty much it at the moment. Oh, and I also collaborated with Marcus on this project with sound design for the documentaries that we shot.

How did ECHO come about, who had the idea, why did you collaborate?

M: It started in 2017, when I went on my first trip to Uganda and volunteered with a children’s home doing this sort of media NGO consultancy work. I then brought these stories back to Australia to do this one event called Voices Unheard. It was an exhibition of what I shot in Uganda, and I was really surprised by how deeply it resonated with people. People really were moved by it and really appreciated the stories.

 So then, I used that to apply for a grant from CameraPro. They were looking to fund people who had a story they wanted to tell through visuals and who wanted to help vulnerable people. I sent them a previous documentary I worked on and they really enjoyed it, so they agreed to help fund a trip to Uganda and Ethiopia to make four documentaries focusing on children, education, agriculture and women.

At that time, David and I were slowly becoming better friends after playing music at church. We were having a talk and David was explaining -  actually what was going through your head at that time?

D: I can’t remember now – all I remembered was that we were chatting about creativity and what we were doing and what we wanted to do and stuff. And then, I can’t remember what happened exactly, but we were really clicking and just decided to collaborate. And I kinda joked about going to Africa and later on…

M: I messaged him and was like, do you want to grab coffee?

D: I think that was in December, and I had to make a call then and I was like, “Sure, let’s do it, we have to raise some money but we can do it.” – that’s pretty much how it happened, it was quite fast actually, within a space of a few weeks.

Why was this project called ECHO?

M: Where ECHO came from was the idea that here in Perth, we live in our own “echo chamber” and what we perceived to be normal. But really, we are not normal, we are not the majority in the world. We’re a rich minority and we have surrounded ourselves in this echo chamber to think that the rest of the world live like we do, but in reality they don’t. We are really, really rich, we are not normal. It’s about waking people up to the fact that we are in an echo chamber, we are not an average majority, we are a very rich minority.

Where were you in Uganda and Ethiopia?

M: So in Uganda, we were in Kampala, the capital city. We shot two projects in Uganda, one was with a children’s home and then the other was with a primary school. We spent a month in total, about two weeks on each project and then we went across to Ethiopia and where we were mainly based in Addis Ababa the capital. But we managed to shoot one of our projects up north in the desert, with a group of pastoralist nomads where we were telling the stories of their struggles. It was amazing. We slept outside under the stars with the nomads and it was crazy but so great.

So David, this was your first time in Africa – how was it as a first time experience?

D: It was pretty tough, it wasn’t so much of the culture shock – well I guess it was culture shock in a sense - but it was the fact that I’m in a such foreign place. It was completely different, how they viewed money and food and community. They are really community based, and just meeting… it’s hard to explain. It was just that feeling of being in a really foreign place where you’re completely out of your comfort zone, completely out of what you’re used to and then diving into that and learning about what that’s like, what life is like particularly for these nomads. I think that’s it, just feeling completely out of your comfort zone and being amongst people who have a completely different outlook on life.

And Marcus, since it was your second time volunteering there, was it any different from the first time? 

M: I think I knew what I was expecting – the first time it was a big shock and I didn’t know what to expect. The first time I came to Africa was my first time travelling solo internationally. You know when you go on holiday for two weeks and the place you’re at doesn’t really become home, because you know you’re coming back home? The first time, I went for three months and it really defined what normal was for me. To be able to live with people who live in what we would call “poverty”, yet to see that as normal and to live day-to-day in that space where it’s not just represented to us through a 20-second World Vision ad, to actually live with them 24/7 for three months was amazing. It really shapes the way you view money, food, people and the world. There’s a beauty in a living such a simple lifestyle with other people.

When we were there, we asked them if mental illness was an issue since they’re facing other issues like malnutrition, disease and housing, and they said, “not really” and I think that’s because they lived in a community and so they relied on each other. There’s a beauty in the way they share their joys and struggles together.

Would you say that those communities are happier than the current society we live in here in Perth?

D: I suppose in that sense, nothing beats the sense of belonging and I think that’s what most of them would feel. They would feel like they belong because they’re in such tight communities.

M: I think here, there are a lot of people who are secretly lonely. Our houses are so closed off, spaces of dwelling are really secret. Whereas over there, the houses aren’t that big, and you don’t spend much time inside. You’re usually out and about and you’re always with people. Loneliness isn’t really an issue that they face, whereas we face loneliness but we’re fine with food and our health. Communities in Uganda and Ethiopia are fine with community but face other issues. It’s hard to tell, because when we’re there, we’re there as two foreigners and they’re excited to see us, so they look happy. What it’s like day to day I don’t know, it’s hard to say. It’s a question I get asked a lot. So yes and no, everyone faces very different things.

D: It’s about perspective. It’s a completely different world there, and I think there are things that make us unhappy here, loneliness for example. They would have their things that make them unhappy, but I think they’re more content, I think that’s it. More at peace I think.  

M: I think we get our joy from doing, accomplishing and getting ahead. Whereas, I think they get their joy from just being, instead of doing, just being with each other and being present, taking things slow, enjoying what they have. They have a beautiful slowness and a state of being – it was amazing to live with them for three months, to just sit in that space with them.

How did they respond to you guys? Obviously they knew that you were filming and shooting, were they open about it?

M: Everyone loved it. I think there’s something about the way we look, just by being different, it’s very exciting to see people like us. Because some of the places we went to were really rural, not many people go there and you don’t see foreigners, ever. What they see is just on TV.

D: One boy in one of the desert towns that we went to, a very smart young boy, around 8-9 years old who spoke English really well, he was telling us that we were the very first white people he’d ever seen. And we were shocked. It’s quite novel for them.

I’ve always wondered how people from vulnerable situations felt about being photographed and filmed. I know a lot of people here are quite private and they get a bit antsy about being photographed due to privacy issues, so it’s quite interesting that they see it as quite novel.

M: It’s nice that they don’t try to put on a show for us, they’re just really happy to be in front of the camera and be present with you. It’s interesting. Especially when working with vulnerable people, the camera can feel really intrusive, and it’s always something I feel uncomfortable about being the person behind the camera, to be in someone’s face, so I am quite selective when I have the camera. I try my best to not have my camera out when meeting someone and to just be present with them and to gain their trust first.

Part 2 of Marcus and David’s Young Artists of WA interview is coming out next week Wednesday 27 November. Catch Marcus and David at ECHO: Stories from East Africa on Saturday 30 November at Mount Pleasant Baptist Church.

INTERVIEW BY: YOSHIKA KON WITH HELP FROM SIMEON NEO.